Behind-the-Scenes: Rebalancing Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix (part 3, T. Hawk)

November 26th, 2007 Seth Killian

This is part three in an extended series of articles from David Sirlin, detailing the changes we’ve made to the rebalanced mode of the new Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix project. The first article went into some details about the design philosophy behind some of the changes, and the second one detailed the changes to Ryu. This time out we’re looking at T. Hawk.

Even apart from being a 7-foot Native American with a Dragon Punch and a Spinning Pile Driver, Hawk is an interesting topic because while he’s among the very weakest characters in the original Super Turbo, he’s also one of the most potentially deadly. Expert players of the other characters can keep him out and grind his life away before he can get inside, but once he does find an opening he can do a TON of damage and trap you with nearly inescapable pile driver tricks. It’s this kind of explosive potential that makes changing him up a real pandora’s box, so read on for the thinking that went into the changes…

And as always, here’s our standard disclaimer: remember, the changes to the rebalanced mode are OPTIONAL :) If you think our redesign team has messed with a masterpiece, the game’s original mode is also included. Although “original” mode also features the HD art, original mode has NO changes to any of the characters. All of their move properties and hitboxes are exactly as they were, down to the pixel! This basically means you have two games in one, and if you don’t like the new-fangled version, the old-school version is still there.

SSF2T HD Remix Gameplay, Part 3: T.Hawk

Last time we looked Ryu’s short change list, so this time lets look at something more extensive. We’ll have to dig deep into the abyss of Super Turbo tiers to find this character. Buried somewhere near the bottom, we find T.Hawk. Attention readers, a T.Hawk “megaton bomb” is coming.

Most (both?) T.hawk players play Old T.Hawk in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. He’s the version that can’t soften throws and doesn’t have a super, but his normal moves are better. The HD Remixed version is kind of a “greatest hits” of T.Hawk’s moves, so he gets to keep his super and his ability to soften throws, and he also gets the better normal attacks from Old T.Hawk. That means his standing roundhouse and standing strong have better hitboxes and are good for poking, and his low roundhouse is faster than ST’s New T.Hawk. He can also crossup with either his jumping splash (down + fierce in the air) and his jumping medium kick.

His Dragon Punch priority is also the (better) Old T.Hawk version, and the timing is more lenient (as it is for all Dragon Punches in the game). T.Hawk’s uppercut often did not knock down before as part of a game-wide problem where 2-hit moves are tagged to only knock down on the second hit. This has been corrected by making both hits able to knock down and the first hit juggles into the second. Don’t get too excited about T.Hawk juggles though, this is actually a small change that just makes the move function as it was meant to (if it actually hits you, you can’t hit it back).

The Street Fighter trivia experts out there know that T.Hawk’s low strong had a stray vulnerable box that allowed him to get hit from really far away during that move’s recovery. Yes, we fixed that, too. ;)

More exciting than these normal moves and Dragon Punches, the 360 command has changed. Well, you can still do the old 360 command if you like, but the special throw will also come out with the new motion that doesn’t require holding up on the joystick/d-pad. The motion is half circle back, then forward + punch or half circle forward, then back + punch. It’s even more lenient in that you can start from defensive or offensive crouch if you like, instead of straight left or right. And finally, you can even replace the final left or right input with any of the three up inputs if you really want. If all that sounds complicated, just remember this: half circle back, then forward + punch is the main way to do it and doesn’t make you accidentally jump.

This change alone breathes new life into T.Hawk. His 360 was incredibly hard to do in ST because T.Hawk, unlike Zangief, jumps in only 3 frames. You had very little leeway in getting that up input before you accidentally jumped, but now doing the command throw is breeze. The emphasis is much more on *should* you do it, rather than *can* you do it.

The 720 motion is also much easier. It’s either half circle back x 2, then forward + punch, or half circle forward x 2, then back + punch. Yes, that means you can walk up and do a super throw without jumping. This is potentially very dangerous, but so far I don’t see a problem. T.Hawk’s non-super throw does about third of your life, so if the opponent is down to that much life, it doesn’t matter much if you land a super on him as opposed to a non-super throw. For this to really matter, you have to have full super meter and the opponent has to have more than 1/3rd of his life, and you have to get into a situation where you can do a command throw, have time to do it, and you have to successfully pull off the super. It’s on my watchlist definitely, but it has not yet let him beat characters he otherwise couldn’t. If it does prove to be a problem, we could lower the damage of the super throw.

And now for the megaton bomb: T.Hawk’s aerial dive is now SAFE on block. Incidentally, it can also be done with jab + short or strong + forward or fierce + roundhouse, in addition to the original command of jab+strong+roundhouse. The new command is for gamepad players, but the SAFE ON BLOCK is a huge balance change that will strike terror into all your hearts.

After the hawk dive, T.Hawk falls mostly straight down rather than bouncing back. This is a great tool for getting in. You’re probably thinking it’s an insanely overpowered tool, so let’s take a look at that. When I first implemented this move, it immediately seemed too good, but I tried it for a while anyway. Note that the bounce still puts him too far away to get a command throw, so you’re not literally “in” yet, you’re just “almost in.” You end up at a distance where you’re close enough to Dragon Punch if the opponent sticks something out, but he could block and punish you if he guesses that. You could also walk up and try for a command throw, but you’re really too far to just walk up, so the opponent can counter that with sweeps pretty easily.

Specifically, Guile can block the dive, then low forward kick. If T.Hawk decides to walk up, he will always get hit by low forward. If T.Hawk decides to Dragon Punch when he lands, it will whiff vs the low forward (because of angles of the hitboxes) and Guile can punish him afterwards. If T.Hawk jumps in after the dive or jumps and dives again, Guile has time to retract his low forward and flash kick on reaction. Guile has plenty of answers here.

I first thought Dhalsim would have no chance against this megaton dive, because he always relied on hitting it back with standing roundhouse. I soon realized Dhalsim can jump back, then drill the dive. He can standing jab to hit the dive cleanly every time. He can medium slide under the dive to make it miss then hit back with far standing strong. That’s three answers right there, it’s just that he no longer has the universal answer of always block, then stand roundhouse.

Blanka is also able to beat this dive without too much trouble. His jumping straight up roundhouse has a good angle to either hit the dive, or even come down and do a combo if the spacing is right. He can use electricity (which is easier to do now) to hit the dive cleanly, too. Bison can use similar techniques with jump straight up roundhouse or jump towards strong punch. T.Hawk still hangs in the air just a bit before diving, and it’s often just the right height for Bison to do his juggling jump strongs.

T.Hawk still has a lot of trouble—maybe too much trouble—against Cammy. It’s hard for T.Hawk to hit her ducking medium kick and it’s even harder to deal with her unpunishable Thrust Kick (aka Dragon Punch).

The list goes on, but I think you get the point. The new safe dive is a very dangerous weapon that lets T.Hawk get in (almost), but there are a lot of countermeasures already in place. T.Hawk is now lots of fun to play with none of the frustrations of trying to do a 360 with only 2 frames of leeway. His safe dive and the ability to do his 360 throw reliably now (remember, it was harder than Zangief’s before) actually make T.Hawk feel like a new character to me.

–Sirlin

Here’s a brief bio on our guest blogger:

David Sirlin has competed in Street Fighter tournaments for 16 years, and for 11 years he has helped organize and run the tournament series that started as B3 and has now become the international Evolution Championships. He represented the United States in SSF2T in Japan’s Super Battle Opera tournament, wrote the competitive gaming book Playing to Win, and provided narration for Bang the Machine, a documentary film about the Street Fighter community. He’s now overseeing the design and gameplay on Super Street Fighter 2: HD Remix.



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14 Comments »

Comment by ChennehCis
2007-11-26 19:12:07

I really like the changes made to Thawk, and the change to his dive was quite a surprise. Overall, I like the fact that it’s safer, but all I have to say is to please pay special attention to meaty dives, as they sound really dangerous.

Getting meaty frame advantage along with the safe on block and landing closer sounds like Thawk’s ground mixup game becomes a lot stronger with one knock down. Something like very meaty dive, walk forward, negative 360 sounds really strong.

Other than that concern, you’re doing a great job on the changes, thank you

 
Comment by dagooh
2007-11-26 20:11:10

For some reason I never gave T. Hawk a chance, the four new characters (in super) seemed out of place (to me), for a while I tried to master Fei Long but it seemed too easy to beat some characters and too hard to beat others.

With this rebalanced mode I might try again to see if I end up liking one of these “new” characters.

Heh, those characters are 14 years old and I keep calling “new”…

 
Comment by Saner
2007-11-26 22:19:12

AWESOME JOB! I thank you for helping make HD Remix even more ultimate than the ultimate Street Fighter ever (Super Turbo). ^_^ I’m sure with more balanced characters and gameplay, HD Remix mode will definitely earn a spot at future EVO tournaments! ^_^

I really love the new art, and how it’s shaping up, and its great you guys are taking the time to improve the online too. I still play HF and the online play is bearable, but if it can be improved, that would be a major plus.

hopefully it comes around January but I think it might be ready around March! (argh! the waiting! lol)

yeah it’s great you guys improved T.Hawk. sad to say, Cammy is another low tier character, but I’m excited to see how you guys decided to improve and give her more advantages. ^_^

 
Comment by Seth "s-kill" Killian
2007-11-27 09:19:18

Saner: Cammy definitely has some fun changes that make her both more inviting to play and more competitive as well. There will be another one of these articles detailing her updates as well.

 
Comment by EDRAGON
2007-11-27 11:31:11

All that is cool! But this question is for the Capcom Co., Is there any way for games likes Marvel Vs Capcom 2 and Capcom Vs SNK 2:EO are released on the PSP game console. I understand that Street Fighter Alpha 3 Max was published, it
just that games I mentioned are ultra rare to find right now the U.S., and plus these two fighting games are legendary. The over 50 characters to play with and not to mention the 3 on 3 battle system.

 
Comment by Spider-Dan
2007-11-27 13:22:16

So here’s an interesting comment:

“If it does prove to be a problem, we could lower the damage of the super throw.”

Does this mean that this game will be subject to online revisions a la Starcraft or World of Warcraft, where some characters and strategies are good in one version but “nerfed” in later ones? Are we going to refer to STHDR v1.0 Ken versus STHDR v1.6 Ken?

Or did you mean that there will be testing during the beta (or maybe even a partially-open beta?) where these issues will be worked out and set in stone for the final version?

 
Comment by monkeyhero
2007-11-27 14:33:41

In one of the earlier updates, you mentioned the 360 download limit might cost us 1:1 pixel mapping for pure 1080p… The PS3 does not have any download limit and would have no problem supporting full 1:1 pixel map and 1080p.
PLEASE don’t gimp the PS3 version because of Microsofts download limit policy!! Give us the best version you can and let MS deal with their users download limits!

 
Comment by UberCyberBeast
2007-12-23 22:24:07

Firstly, I like the changes made to Hawk.

Now on to a much more important matter (LOL):

I think a similar change to Hawk’s dive should be done to Zangief’s green hand: make it safe on block.

Also, I think Zangief should be given back his safe SPDs from his older versions (whiff animation removed) - just like Hawk has safe 360s.

And I think Gief should have his HF kick lariat back too.

;D

 
Comment by UberCyberBeast
2007-12-23 23:30:12

Oh, yeah: Gief needs his old crouching MP and HP throws back too.

Sorry. LOL.

;D

 
Comment by Decca
2008-01-04 12:42:02

I love these new changes, I play O. Hawk exclusively - never imagined making Condor Dive safe, so it’s incredible.

 
2008-03-03 14:04:24

[…] incluirán en este juego (en el que se podrá jugar sin cambios), tal como hizo con Blanka, Ken, T.Hawk, Ryu y la […]

 
Comment by C YOU 1N HELL gamertag
2008-03-11 04:39:44

YES great job again Sirlin its like ur just fixing bugs in the game that should have never been. T Hawk is another really cool looking character that was so bad he was just unusable that was really sad cuz it lead peps (noobs like me) using only a few characters like Ryu all the time.

 
Comment by hawke
2008-03-15 16:04:11

Wow, after reading how much you changed one of my favorite characters I am even more psyched for a no brainer purchase for me. For me, going into street fighter I went with the mentality with learn the worst characters and you’ll be better with the best. (local tournaments I consistantly placed in the top 3 with Ken (played all day once), Dahlhism, T-hawk and Zangief. I was an agressive-defensive-counter trap player that forced many opponents into making moves that I would then counter.

Street Fighter was a passion for me and I am overly plesed to see it go back to the roots. I wasn’t a big fan of 3, however I loved all the streetfighter vs series and nightwarriors/darkstalkers (bishamon rocked!). I know I can never reachieve the level that I was once at namely due to my disability, but I do know that seeing the vids I can at least have some fun with complete strangers reminiscent of my teen years at the arcades of yore.

Great job, love the effort and I await to see what else comes from this game and down the road with your future endeavours.

 
2008-12-12 07:24:28

[…] about the design philosophy behind some of the changes, the second detailed changes to Ryu, and part three was all about T. Hawk. This week focuses on the ladies’ man behind everyone’s favorite […]

 
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