Behind-the-Scenes: Rebalancing Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix (The Story So Far / Updates on Character Changes)

April 11th, 2008 Seth Killian

This is part ten in an extended series of articles from David Sirlin, detailing the changes we’ve made to the rebalanced mode of the new Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix project. The previous articles can be found here.

Much time has passed since these articles were first written, but tweaking of the game has continued non-stop, even for the characters whose changes have already been revealed. As a result, in honor of the tenth article, this article provides a quick recap of “the changes to the changes!”

Part 10: The Story So Far

A lot of time has passed since I wrote the first parts of this series about the balance changes in Street Fighter: HD Remix (remember, I wrote them many weeks before they were posted). Some things have changed since then, so here are the updates.

Ryu
No change. He still just has the fake fireball, and it’s great. It tricks people like Honda into jumping at the wrong times and Zangief into doing lariat at the wrong times. He can also use it to pressure with stuff like low roundhouse, cancel into fake fireball, walk up throw.

Ken
I have a “watch list” of things that might be too good. (hit the jump to read more!)

Things are usually on this list because I think they might have some use I’m just not aware of yet, so I want to keep an eye how players use them. Ken’s new long-distance roundhouse Hurricane Kick was one of these things. Despite the worries of many players, this move was actually fine in all the usual uses of trying to hit someone who’s kind of far away. The problem is that after Ken’s knee bash mixup, he can threaten to do low medium kick (from either side of you!) into the new roundhouse Hurricane Kick. The Hurricane Kick starts with a hit on the way up that connects versus ducking opponents (unlike Ryu’s). In the SF2 series, if you get hit by a special move, you automatically stand up, so that means the rest of the Hurricane Kick will hit you too. Because the move travels farther and faster now, it’s better able to get all the hits in that situation and very, very often ends up dizzying the opponent. It’s too much reward for something you can do reliably after a knee bash mixup.

Roundhouse version of Hurricane Kick dizzy power is now cut in half.

Also, Ken’s knee bash throw now has just slightly less range. It makes no difference when Ken goes for his something like jump jab into knee bash, but it does give him some reason to attempt other throws when the opponent is at the edge of his throw range.

Balrog
I said that if I woke up one more night in cold sweats over the damage on Balrog’s super, then I’d change it. I did and I did. It now only does about 50% of your life, instead of even more, as it used to. It’s still incredibly good. I sleep better now.

Cammy
No change since the last update. Although one famous Cammy player thinks her Cannon Spike recovery shouldn’t have been made worse, most players are asking why it’s not being nerfed even more than it already is. In her current state, she can Cannon Drill (safe on block), then as long as she did the spacing right, Cannon Spike (also safe on block). It’s very strong. The Cannon Spike is only unsafe when done from close. The jury is still out on whether to keep this, considering the new Cannon Drill gives her a lot of power to apply pressure.

Sagat
No change since last update. He seems about right, and a lot more fun.

Blanka
Since the last update, I made his jab and strong horizontal rolls travel slightly shorter. Also, they now have the same sound effects and rotation (meaning the visual effect) that the fierce roll has. This makes whiffed roll into bite a little better of a tactic.

Some readers have complained that maybe Blanka is too weak, but in practice we have the opposite problem. In the original ST, he was good against Vega, Zangief, T.Hawk, and Cammy. He still is. He used to have big, big trouble vs Ryu and Sagat, but now he can roll without getting hit back by a fireball. Also, Sagat’s arms stick out farther after fireballs (same as ST New Sagat’s arms), so jumping over them and kicking Sagat is more realistic now. Basically, Blanka’s bad matches aren’t as bad anymore and his good matches are still good. His good matches are also more relevant now, because it actually matters if you can beat T.Hawk, Zangief, and Cammy now (they are much more viable characters).

If possible, we will try to make him take more damage than usual if he gets hit out of his horizontal roll (though not as extreme as in SF2: World Warrior). This would be a fair trade for his roll being safer on block. I know it sounds strange to tone Blanka down in any way because you’re used to him being so bad, but consider how few bad matches he has anymore. Blanka’s a new man now.

T.Hawk
Oh, T.Hawk. There’s too much to say here, so I’ll have to write a whole separate article on him. He’s been tough to get right.

–Sirlin



RSS feed

11 Comments »

Comment by duggie
2008-04-11 21:42:40

Have you thought about making the characters with good design more powerful than the cliched ones? I’d like to have more reason to play as Cammy than T.Hawk, say.

 
Comment by Saner
2008-04-11 22:57:32

good decisions. more testing may result in better balance. but yep, it’s looking better than before.

 
Comment by Calibretto
2008-04-11 23:48:51

Please give Chun-Li back her downforward+Roundhouse backflip move. I heard you talking about removing it in the 1UP video because you think it’s worthless. No, it’s not. I like that move a lot. Please reconsider.

 
Comment by Owwmykneecap
2008-04-12 08:10:39

All i know is I’d love Chun to have the spinning bird back.

Comment by Master Bigode
2008-04-12 20:14:21

Charge back then press forward + Kick.

 
 
Comment by maglito
2008-04-12 09:27:06

Is is futile to keep asking for at least one of RYU’s dragon punches to be “juiced up” (un-nerfed) ala Ken’s DP? RYU has no changes other then a fake fireball and fireballs are supposed to be 20% less effective in this game. Give me at least one DP (the jab, I don’t care) that I can’t get mid air kick or punched out of and I’ll be satisfied. It seems like in this re-mix RYU will be towards the bottom tier rather than mid with so many other characters able to avoid fireballs and all the lower characters getting “juiced up”. Is this really where you want your star character? Again, let me know if this is futile and I’ll give it up. Of course I’ll buy it either way — I own every version of every street fighter game ever made (on at least one home console, even bought a 3DO for this game the first time around and I just bought a PS3 for this one…SSF2T is always the one that requires the most investment).
Thanks for reading.

 
Comment by Braeden
2008-04-13 02:10:04

I have to concur somewhat with the above assesment.
As it stands now, sparring with Ken sounds like a pretty rough time for our boy.
Ryu is the iconic fighting game protagonist, and it allways hurts my soul when I see him diminished and relagated to a character played only by people who play exclusively “for fun;” and by geniuses who practice twice as much for the same results they would get with a top tier character just so they can use him in tournaments.
I love the idea of a fake fireball, (though I definately think it should utilize the same sound effect as a real one;) but I don’t want to see Ryu turn into a low tier stunt character played for “distance practice.”
Ryu had such a confident, solid feel in hyper fighting, I think people would love to see that sort of Ryu represented in this game. Was that Ryu a bit frightening? Sure…but he’s the best fighter in the world, right?
Shouldn’t people worry about more than just whether they’re going to get fireballed to death?
Isn’t is somehow perverse that when your opponent picks Ryu, you think: “Thank god he didn’t pick Vega?”
I understand that to honor the original game, moving characters relative power levels too much may be to be avoided; but surely there are many people who feel, as I do, that Ryu sitting somewhere below Balrog and Dhalasim seems somehow out of sorts. I think that giving Ryu back his old hyper fighting DP, at least at the jab setting, or even just in strong or fierce, so there’s a price to misguessing, wouldn’t be tipping the scales too much in his favor.
And perhaps a slightly more involved input command, (fierce during a dash or qcb+f,) for the sliding fierce; that thing goes all over the place.
Thanks for taking the time to indulge my rambling.
-Braeden

 
Comment by TurtlePower
2008-04-13 22:06:53

The fireballs are not 20% less effective than they were in Super Turbo, you must have completely not comprehended this statement: “This is a delicate thing, so don’t misunderstand me. If we have a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is the effectiveness of fireballs in Super Turbo and 1 is the effectiveness in SF3: 3rd Strike, I’m shooting for an 8″. He is saying that in the gap of fireball effectiveness between the two games, Remix will match very closely to Turbo. A 20% reduction would move that scale way closer to 3rd Strike than to Super Turbo.

 
Comment by omfglearntoplay
2008-04-14 08:51:03

@maglito

I thought in the old article it said that all Ken/Ryn dragon punches were made invulnerable. Did I get that wrong… might have to go find them?

Yeah, I still break out my 3D0 to play super turbo (speaking of which, is it possible to select OldSagat or other old characters on the 3d0?)… and will likely also be getting a PS3 for the new SF releases. At least now you can get a badass joystick from http://www.xgaming.com/tankstick-arcade-game.shtml that will play on most systems at least with converters.

 
Comment by omfglearntoplay
2008-04-14 08:54:52

Sorry forgot to put in my 2 cents: I think the non-invulnerable DP on Ryu is more fair (whatever he has in super turbo), because if you do it at the very last second, he never gets hit out of it by any normal moves… and if you time it incorrectly there is a small chance you’ll trade hits, which seems fair. We had a guy who was so good at timing on Ryu’s dragon punch in my old arcade scene, that we only noticed the vulnerability when other people played him.

 
Comment by dawolf57
2008-04-22 18:35:13

Just a question about Blanka, when you said he already had a good match up against vega in ST did you mean dictator or claw? Becuase I always thought that claw was a tough match for blanka, aside from up ball to counter wall dives I dont think that he has any other options.

Also I wanted to suggest some changes to make his electricity move a bit more fun to use, if this move can be modified to help Blanka deal some chip damage or so that it cancels out fire balls kinda like Zangief’s green hand while at the same time the fire ball stops electricity and makes Blanka take longer to recover from it. In the second sugestion I can see the move having some uses against most fire ball characters but maybe Guile or Dhalsim can make use of the added recovery to pressure or punish Blanka from the right distance.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <em> <i> <strike> <strong> in your comment.